Joomla Developer and Site Builder Network

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Permalink Reply by Amy Stephen on September 29, 2009 at 12:38pm

Using the word Joomla! in an article, etc., is certainly something that falls under fair use and does not require permission. I agree with OSM that it is appropriate to follow the process and request the limited use license. I looked through the forms and thought about it, but I didn't draw the right conclusion.

It's probably even more important to do this given my involvement with the project. It needs to be clear that this resource is offered independent of the project. So, it's all good. My time must remain focused on more important matters - three minutes to fill out the form is not a big deal. ;-)

It's okay to discuss, not hijacking.

Tool ideas greatly appreciated!

Permalink Reply by Torkil Johnsen on September 29, 2009 at 1:45pm

Sharing code is essencial, and until a better solution can be found, using pastie.org and just linking to the code can be a suitable alternative.

Permalink Reply by Rita Lewis on September 29, 2009 at 2:52pm

I just finished writing an article about Copyright and Freelancers for Freelance Switch that might be appropriate given the sensitivity of trademark. The article should be published shortly and I'll post the link.

Leo, it took me about a month to get listed in the Resources. I'm not sure what the hold up is, and I wish they had nore granular categories since I'm a web designer and content strategist that uses Joomla! and they put freelancing in Education and Other, I think.

Amy, should there be a category for suggestions back to OSM that we might come up with?

Permalink Reply by Amy Stephen on September 29, 2009 at 11:05pm

I'm going to give you a very "Amy-like" answer, so, please forgive me if it makes you wish you never asked me! I am just laying it out there for everyone and my answer is way more than you probably bargained for and not at all directed at you. I'm taking an opportunity to say my piece.

I've been involved with Joomla! since November 2005. The forums were hopping then - lots of people involved - lots of energy, etc. Needless to say, since I started, I've seen a lot of changes with the project. As a community, we went through a real low point during the "GPL talks." Three months of brutal arguing in the forums and very little, if any, feedback from the project. IMO, the way we all responded nearly buried this project. Plenty of blame to go around and I admit, I personally made a ridiculous number of mistakes.

In the two years following, there were times, that I really did not know if the project was going to make it. The alienation created from the GPL issues resulted in so few people contributing and still, an enormous amount of work. You could count and name the contributors working on the project for a long time.

I remember at one point I watched a video I saw where Webchick said there were 10, or so people at the first DrupalCon. And I told Elin Waring that we could bounce back as long as we had at least 10 people. That was the kind of thing we were clinging to during that time. Wilco started breathing life back into the project. He was our enthusiasm and encouragement. He fired up the Bug Squad. He brought in Anthony. We had Bug Squash Weekends and slowly but surely people started joining in to help, we released 1.5 and there have been several good releases since. The Bug Squad is awesome.

Things are much better in the project but I still believe the project is not in good shape. Contributors are not coming forward at a pace needed to allow the old and tired to bow out for awhile. The project still gives off cold pricklies instead of warm fuzzies and people just don't know how to get involved. Within the inner sanctums of the project, it's not uncommon for progress to stall because of unbelievably stupid infighting. Truth is, people are beat and sometimes, at least, discouraged, tired.

As a project, we still have not made real attempts to pull our community back together. We talk about it. We think about it. But, it's like none of us really know what to do, or are too exhausted to try, or are just afraid to fail and disappoint ourselves, again. Whatever the complex mix of reasons are, the point is there is just no good place for people to gather where they feel comfortable to be open, and welcome to participate, and in some cases just aren't allowed to participate. So, that's where we're at from *my* perspective. Might be right, might be wrong, probably just depends on how you look at it.

Last Sunday, when this little Ning site was opened, we created a place everyone can be All Together, As a Whole, again. It's our "Start Over" place. If you are a contributor, or an old-timer, if you were pro-GPL, anti-GPL, red-haired, dark or light skinned, it doesn't matter, you can come. So, that problem is solved, we have our at least temporary place.

Next, we need to all reach out and make sure people who want to get involved know they are welcome and start pulling back together our third party and site developer community and get re-acquainted with each other and learn about how everyone is using Joomla!.

Then, we have work to do and we need to start thinking more strategically about code and start collaborating as co-workers on this big, virtual project. We need to be thinking about User Interfaces and design and how we plan to take the next step as a community.

That's going to take some work on our part. It's not something the project can do for us and it's not something we should turn over to anyone, including the project. It's our skill sets, our incomes, our customers. We need to make this happen and we can if we focus on our code and our work, our shared vision and how we *plan* to make certain *our* project stays healthy enough to bear the weight of our ecosystem.

Sometimes, when groups gather together, it can appear threatening. Given where we have been as a project and where we are right now, it is important we demonstrate we are here for the benefit we bring to each other as a working community. If we keep a list, I hope very much that it is a list of our goals we set for ourselves.

We are pretty fortunate because there are as many leaders in this group as there are members. Several founding members are here. Others who served on core. Several authors of Joomla! books. Developers of some of the most popular extensions. Some who are in leadership positions now on working groups and as global moderators. Members of JED, OSM, and even the Joomla! 1.6 release team. Leaders in the business organizations and developers who want to become experts at Joomla!.

It will be good to see where we lead us.

At some point, we will have a strong identity as a network of developers and site builders. We will know what types of tools we need to work together and we will set up presence at Joomla org more united on purpose and vision, united as an inclusive membership and a very good feel for what our jobs are within our community.

And, Rita, that's my "Amy-like" answer to your very simple question. :)

Permalink Reply by Mike Feng Jinglong on September 30, 2009 at 2:49am

Re: productivity tools. Are these only Ning-tools? I have never used Ning before. No idea how this works.

Permalink Reply by Amy Stephen on September 30, 2009 at 8:50am

For now, yes, Ning-tools. Yesterday, I tried getting Poll Daddy working for us. I was able to create a Poll, but couldn't figure out how to bring it into the Ning. It appears that most of the add-ons actually become part of ones personal profile page. If that's true, it doesn't make a poll very helpful when someone is trying to gauge the pulse of readers. *shrug*

For me, the most important missing tool is a code highlighter. Torkil's recommendation to use pastie.org makes the most sense.

We might want to open a discussion for what kind of working environment we need for setting up a network at Joomla org, and then how we might go about making that happen. Perhaps that's a better investment of time, or maybe it's too early to start that planning. Up to the group.

Permalink Reply by Mark W. Bender on September 30, 2009 at 9:12am

Yes, community is a large part of any gather of like minds. In my pursuit of knowledge in the Open Source cyber-world, I've run into MANY websites/forums/projects where there was little if ANY community involvement/support. Fortunately the Joomla Community was very welcoming, and I'm a daily reader of the Joomla Forum.

If visitors don't feel welcome, or are treated with respect, they'll never be back. Hopefully the "non developers" will feel welcome here.

Permalink Reply by Rita Lewis on September 30, 2009 at 9:20am

I love your Amy-Like answer! It sounds like a Rita-Like answer :)

It tells me a lot about what was going on as I watched from the sidelines and lurked on the forums (I feel very intimidated by the programmer/PHP Guru heavy orientation when I am so user-focused). What happened is not unusual. For an example, a silly one at that, I can think of no more dedicated group than SaveFarscape.com yet because of enormous infighting about similar money-oriented/ideology-oriented things, the group almost imploded. In the end, it was the force of the leaders and a split off group that lead to a successful conclusion that is still happening 5 years later. OSM reminds me of this other group (although way more important).

So, what can a site builder, and sort of Managing Editor person who stands between the techies and the content gurus do to help? I know what my clients want: a much more user-friendly back end as well as more of Drupal's flexibility. I have wanted to lend a hand since I began working with Mambo (and followed along through the "fork" and into Joomla.org). I'm a little person who has evangellized Joomla whereever I can. I don't always win, but it opens people's eyes to the benefits of Open Source products. I do feel a coldness from OSM and Joomla (such as the restrictive nature of the use of the logo as well as the difficulty communicating). That's why I jumped in here.

I'm naive and not an insider, so forgive my lack of knowledge. I do learn fast, though. : )

Thanks Amy

Permalink Reply by Mark W. Bender on September 30, 2009 at 9:39am

I too seem to be a person in the middle. I understand a lot about what it takes to do both.
I guess we are the "bridge" type of person who helps "connect" those two sides of what can sometimes be a "canyon"!

Permalink Reply by Amy Stephen on September 30, 2009 at 9:34pm

We are good to go! Got a note that our feed is published to Joomla! Connect. Thanks to those in OSM making good things happen for the community!

Permalink Reply by Amy Stephen on October 3, 2009 at 9:48pm

I purchased www.AllTogetherAsAWhole.org (and .com) and am paying the $5 a month to Google to have our own domain name. That way, if we get to the point that we are ready to move to Joomla.org, or whatever, we have a domain name we can use.

You can point your browser http://www.AllTogetherAsAWhole.org and there we'll be!

Please let me know if there are questions or concerns about this.

Permalink Reply by Amy Stephen on October 10, 2009 at 8:36am

Thanks to Fotis, I now went *all the way to the bottom* of the Manage screen, clicked the scary looking Advanced button and found a simple to use listbox that redirects all requests to http://www.AllTogetherAsAWhole.org. Much better, thank you, Fotis!

Since there were a couple of questions, I wanted to mention that, yes, the site feed was removed from Joomla! Connect. I asked Brad yesterday if there was a problem and he mentioned something about needing a new feed, and pointed me to the Joomla! Connect rules and email address, correctly asking that I follow the standard process for these types of questions. So, I sent a note right away to Joomla! Connect and don't expect it to be long before our feed is reconnected.

I don't sense any issues that can't be resolved. I might have provided a bad link for the feed, I don't know. The link to our site never worked correctly and it is very likely something I did wrong. I expect the feed to be restored before too long.

Thanks!

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