Joomla! Community Magazine Relaunch Status.....

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Paul Orwig on December 17, 2009 at 3:27pm

Mark thanks for starting this discussion. There is no question we have a lot of work yet to do before we are ready to publish our first issue! I know that originally we talked about the first issue going out on 1/1/10, but given the current date and our status, I think we are going to have to push back the date for releasing the first issue. Here is a list off the top of my head of the bigger pieces I can think of that we still need to make progress on before we're ready to launch:

Finalize layout
Now that Fotis has posted the K2 mockup, I have sent an email to the Community WG leadership asking for guidance on using K2 for the layout. Previously some in that group had expressed a preference for a reliance on the J! core. I will report back on that. If we move forward with K2, then I think there is still a lot of work to be done to refine the layout for the content we actually plan to deliver (including possibly incorporating elements of Dex's wireframe).

Finalize structure
There have been multiple posts on this but I don't think we have agreement yet on if the magazine will have a recurring set of subject matter areas or not, and if so what will they be. I think we need to nail this down to help our authors get a sense of suitable topics to write about.

Finalize workflow
We've got a workflow posted , but Dex has proposed simplifying it and I think the group should weigh in on that point. Of course we can always adapt the workflow over time. If we stick with the currently posted workflow, then we need to get volunteers for peer reviews.

Create content and edit it
We have a list of authors, but no finished articles that I have seen. Maybe authors are waiting to learn what the magazine's structure will be, or maybe they are waiting to hear an official announcement/call for submissions. I think we also need to define who will be doing the editing, and we need to commit beginning work on a style guide. The style guide doesn't have to be complete on day 1 but if we commit to it then I think it will make everyone's (writers and editors) job easier and the final result will look a lot more polished.

Preview/Test/Release
If we use a sandbox site for development and testing, then it would be good to have everyone's help to test links, etc. If we use K2, it will be good to have Fotis' help to come up with a good process for moving everything to production and then pubishing it.

Permalink Reply by Dex Randall on December 17, 2009 at 5:01pm

Thx Paul, Mark

Some more notes to add...

Structure
I am keen to know if we are using the community site
(a) are we authorised to do so
(b) what branding and other rules are inherent
(c) what subdomain do we use and how can we get a copy of Joomla set up on it (is magazine.joomla.org possible?)
(d) what do we need to do to use Joomla! Community Magazine title, which is a trademark

Layout
I would like to see K2 actually working with magazine issues. Can we get a test site please Fotis?
Re the wireframe, I reckon some of those elements are key to a magazine. We didnt discuss earlier, but still can... I just put that one up to trigger some discussion.

Magazine sections
Shall we make a starter list and make suggestions from there?
- news
- community
- events
- developers
- learning
- design
- interviews

Content
We have submission guidelines. I think once we've got a first publication date and sections we can work out submission deadlines, collect up volunteers for editing and writing and go for it. What you think? We can issue a call for submissions, with everything laid out so people know what's going on.

I have some style guide notes that came along with the submission guidelines, as another start point.

cheers
Dex

Permalink Reply by Arlen Walker on December 17, 2009 at 5:24pm

Paul Orwig said:

Now that Fotis has posted the K2 mockup, I have sent an email to the Community WG leadership asking for guidance on using K2 for the layout. Previously some in that group had expressed a preference for a reliance on the J! core. I will report back on that. If we move forward with K2, then I think there is still a lot of work to be done to refine the layout for the content we actually plan to deliver (including possibly incorporating elements of Dex's wireframe).

Personal opinion: J! core sucks as a magazine engine.

We've got a workflow posted , but Dex has proposed simplifying it and I think the group should weigh in on that point. Of course we can always adapt the workflow over time. If we stick with the currently posted workflow, then we need to get volunteers for peer reviews.

I'd be perfectly happy to drop the peer review, thought it was overkill at best, and just plain silly at worst. I'm perfectly willing to trust the editor's judgement, even though OSM isn't. I think we need writing/editing/publishing workflow, but not much else.

We have a list of authors, but no finished articles that I have seen.

I have no idea how to go about handing in my first column. I posted a note in one of the other discussions a while back saying it's done and I just need information about what to do next.

Permalink Reply by Paul Orwig on December 17, 2009 at 5:34pm

@Dex: Some of the things you asked I can respond to. I think almost all of these points have been posted on this site in one discussion or another over the past weeks but I know it can be hard to keep track of everything that's been said (like I forgot about your style guide notes-sorry!)

I am keen to know if we are using the community site
(a) are we authorised to do so
We are authorized to use the community site. I am not aware of any plans to publish the magazine elsewhere.

what branding and other rules are inherent
I asked Ron Severdia to review Fotis' mockup. His main recommendation was that the mockup adhere to the J! website color palette. Fotis' second mockup included more use of the orange that is standard across the J! sites, but I think there is more room for the design/layout to more closely adhere to the J! sites color palette. Fotis' next mockup should show the layout within the J!.org look and feel.

what subdomain do we use and how can we get a copy of Joomla set up on it (is magazine.joomla.org possible?)
I asked Community WG leadership about this a while ago and the majority recommendation at that time was to not use a subdomain or a separate instance of J! for the magazine. I have been acting on that assumption ever since.

what do we need to do to use Joomla! Community Magazine title, which is a trademark
We have permission to use that title as long as the site is hosted on the Community Site. If the magazine is hosted somewhere else, we do not have permission to use that title.

I would like to see K2 actually working with magazine issues. Can we get a test site please Fotis?
I think the logical place for a test site is the Community sandbox site. I think it would be best to get approval from the Community WG Leadership to use K2 before moving forward with setting a test site up on the Community sandbox site. Of course if Fotis or someone else wants to set up a test site somewhere else right away that is fine.

Permalink Reply by Paul Orwig on December 17, 2009 at 6:24pm

@Arlen: I responded to your previous post when you originally said that you had an article ready to submit. My response was/is do you have an account on the Community site? If so let me know and I will set up a new section/category on the sandbox site where you can submit your article to. If not, send me a friend request on this site along with your email address, and I will use that to set up an account for you on the Community sandbox site, and then you can submit your article there. This may not be the permanent solution but I think it will work for now.

Permalink Reply by Arlen Walker on December 17, 2009 at 11:12pm

Paul Orwig said:

@Arlen: I responded to your previous post when you originally said that you had an article ready to submit.

Hmm. Email notification must not be working well on that thread. I never logged a reply to it. It's been so reliable on the other boards here I got out of the habit of checking manually.

As for title, IANAL but I don't think you strictly *need* permission to use Joomla in the title of a magazine. There's a traditional "loophole" in trademark law for the use of trademarks in publishing, and (as one example) Future Publishing publishes several magazines with Photoshop in the title, and in none of them do they do anything more than acknowledge that it is an Adobe trademark, never including the magic phrase "used by permission".

IOW, I could go out tomorrow and start publishing a magazine on topics related to Joomla, and so long as I'm clear in it that A) I don't own the trademark and B) that the magazine is not an official Joomla organ I'd probably be in the clear. (Of course, there's always the issue of staying on the good side of the subject of the magazine in order to get access to the people, etc., so permission is always nice to have; I'm just not sure it's necessary. Not to mention that pesky bit of the trademark law that would *require* OSM at the minimum to send me a C&D letter in order to later show they were actively defending their mark against all comers.)

Trademark law is to prevent confusion in the marketplace, to prevent me from claiming to be Joomla, for example, not to control what gets published, and using the name in the title of a magazine about all things Joomla would be a descriptive use of it, so I think would pass legal muster so long as I was clear about the difference. If one item is a magazine and the other is software, there is little chance of confusing the two, which is why the loophole has traditionally existed.

(In order to forestall wild rumors about me, I should probably note that I have no such plans in any stage of development -- although a good name for such a magazine just hit me while I was typing this, I don't plan on using it. I was simply using myself as an example in order to preserve anyone else from being the subject of wild rumor.)

Permalink Reply by Amy Stephen on December 17, 2009 at 11:45pm

Arlen - (and everyone) - in case it's not clear - the goal is to have the magazine on property using the Joomla! Community Magazine name that OSM trademarked when the first magazine started.

Both Paul and Ron are talking with the project, ironing out the details, and it sounds pretty hopeful. If the Leadership Team ends up preferring we work off site, we have JoomlaMagazine.org for that purpose. In that case, we should be able to use the name (provided it doesn't look official) without violating the TM. I've read the same literary explanations that you are describing.

Of course, because we are a community and it's good to cooperate, we'd apply with OSM for use and I can't imagine there would be a problem. But, Plan A is getting this on property and I really do think that's going to happen.

I'm really excited about this - Dex and Paul thanks for your leadership here.

Permalink Reply by Arno Zijlstra on December 18, 2009 at 3:10am

If on property means OSM or Leadership has any rights or power to hold or even think they have the power to control what is published I'd say go to plan B straight away.

If OSM is going to bully over trademark use by the projects community which is putting lot's of effort to create a community magazine that is spreading J in a great way I'm seriously at the point to say screw them let them take the whole community to court and we'll see what happens, I doubt they will be ignorant enough to go that route however you never know.

I do hope we won't reach this point though.

One of the reasons I'm at that point is this hart-breaking story http://blogs.drstonyhills.com/2009/12/12/joomla-is-fast-becoming-a-... which sadly isn't a standalone happened just one time, sorry story.

Permalink Reply by Mark Simpson on December 19, 2009 at 5:47pm

I don't think it would be in the best interest of the Joomla project to use K2 or any content management extension on any J.org property. It would be an admission by the core that their core product is just not good enough... and that would not be a good PR move, no matter what you and I think of com_content.

If we *must* use a CCK extension for the core content management, I suggest we publish the site on JoomlaMagazine.org.

IMHO I don't think going CCK is the way to go *in this instance*, especially considering J1.6 is just around the corner.

Also, calling it a magazine is great, but I really don't believe the magazine publishing schedule works on the web. Better IMO to publish content every 4-7 days... like most of the blogs in our niche do.

My two cents.
Thanks

Permalink Reply by Mark Simpson on December 19, 2009 at 8:16pm

Hi Brian,

Yes, those are extensions that add to Joomla, as opposed to a CCK which replaces the core of Joomla *CMS*. Joomla doesn't sell itself as a directory or blog.

It isn't a strong enough argument on it's own I agree, but weighed against the fact that everything needed (going by what I've read here and seen in the design) for the CMS is in J1.6...

No matter... I'm not going to argue about it, just thought that that was something to consider. For what it's worth, I use and love K2 and one of its rivals, FC.

Brian Teeman said:

Mark the core joomla.org web sites already use several third party extensions including those from mosets and jxtended together with some custom written code.

Permalink Reply by Arlen Walker on December 21, 2009 at 1:20pm

Mark Simpson said:

I don't think it would be in the best interest of the Joomla project to use K2 or any content management extension on any J.org property. It would be an admission by the core that their core product is just not good enough... and that would not be a good PR move, no matter what you and I think of com_content.

Considering that members of the core team *have* written content extensions precisely aimed at web-based magazines, I think this "admission" would be tantamount to "admitting" gravity exists.

No one with more than one functioning synapse believes Joomla's core system is appropriate for every possible use on the web. That's why it was designed and built to be extensible.

"Look! Our system is so robust and flexible you can build *anything* on it! And our developer community is so extensive that you can easily locate the tools to do it yourself!" The only way *that* can possibly be bad PR is if Joomla is planning to go into competition with its own development community.

@paul - Sorry, it took me a while to be sure of my answer. No, apparently I *don't* have an account on the community website.

Permalink Reply by Amy Stephen on December 21, 2009 at 1:42pm

Well put, Arlen.

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• 3
• 4
• Next ›
• Page