Since the release of Seblod CCK (GA) I have been playing around with it on a personal website.
I am generally very impressed with what they are doing, though I am concerned that some of their approach (especially with regards to templates) maybe unnecessarily complicated.
In using it, the one thing that has occured to me is that before you even start with a CCK are the existing fields in the Joomla default database complete enough? In this case I am thinking primarily about #_content.
In setting up my personal Seblod based site, I have first of all added to #_content (using seblod) some pretty obvious fields that probably should have been there in the first place:
There are other things that would be useful as standard features:
A CCK (whether that is Seblod or any other system) should be versatile enough to use either new DB tables, but should also have enough core tables available so that all content has a solid starting point.
It seems perhaps a little unfair that a CCK should not only be used for creating unique database tables and entries but also to create core fields in existing tables that should have been there in the first place! :)
Many CCKs (Seblod included) use custom methods to store multiple fileds in single existing joomla columns. As a non-programmer my gut instinct is that this is very unwise.
One issue that has been growing in recent years is about archiving of data in a form that will be accessible over a long period of time. We already have a problem that to allow writers lots of flexibility in presenting their work we store text wrapped up in HTML. To me, adding to that complication by encouraging the use of delimiters to store multiple information types in one field, or adding anything unexpected to any field in a database, is storing up trouble for the future.
My worry is that if I create a large website using one CCK system, then in the future need to convert the data to another system, it may be more or less impossible to sort out all the various problems.
With Seblod, thankfully, you can force it to create new tables where the information is stored in standard form without delimiters and I recommend this method to any who use the system. However, it still used the #_content table for core values like Title, Published Date and so on and joins the information by storing the CCK id number in the introtext and fulltext columns, which to me is a possible problem in the future.
Someone has noticed this on the Joomla Code website:
http://joomlacode.org/gf/project/joomla/scmsvn/?action=ScmCommitDet...
It seems that Mark Dexter has set up a Seblod branch of Joomla. No idea why.
Comment by Matthew Schenker on December 6, 2011 at 5:31am Hello,
This is something I've been thinking about a lot lately, since I now use Seblod for all my sites.
By coincidence, in the Seblod user forum someone posted about Mark Dexter's commit. It sparked some interest, so I decided to write to Mr. Dexter for more information.
I asked him for a general idea of what this means. He was kind enough to give this response:
"This is a branch for working on a feature for Joomla. The issue for the feature is here: http://joomlacode.org/gf/project/joomla/tracker/?action=TrackerItem...."
I was still confused so I followed up asking if this meant that a CCK element was being considered for Joomla core. Here is is response:
"At this point, the branch is to work on the ACL issues outlined in that tracker item."
It sounds interesting to me. And yet, I'm still not quite sure what it means. If anyone has more information, I'd love to hear it.
Thanks,
Matthew
Comment by Joss Sanglier on December 6, 2011 at 5:33am Hi Matthew - no coincidence, I saw it in the Seblod forum too!
Comment by Matthew Schenker on December 6, 2011 at 5:38am Hi Joss,
Glad there are a few people then who are following this!
I'd still like to know if a CCK is being considered for Joomla core. Of course, a lot of people are talking about this, in comparison to Drupal's "CCK" element. I have mixed feelings about adding a CCK to Joomla core, but I think there is a push generally to do it. I'm going to do a blog post about this.
Thanks,
Matthew
Comment by Joss Sanglier on December 6, 2011 at 6:30am I will look forward to reading it!
My own take is that Joomla needs a CCK, but that it needs to be very straight forward and logical and not take the user down any particular way of working.
With Seblod, my favourite part of their system is that you can create fields either as an addon to an existing table or create a seperate but joined table. I do not like that it changes the way some core fields are used as it makes it suddenly incompatible.
A CCK within Joomla has the advantage of not having to work around the joomla system and therefore can be made very logical and very simple. I am rather old fashioned in that I believe that if your core data is not clear and consistently organised then any system that utilises that data will be needlessly complicated. It is back to the idea of keeping distance between data and application. With CCKs that are put over the top of a system that becomes blurred, and every CCK blurs the line in a different way.
In a way, Joomla plus a third party CCK is getting pretty close to being a Fork.
I would love to have a conversation with whichever part of Joomla development is looking at CCKs and make sure that the ground rules for development focus on data integrity first and cleverness second. But then, I am not a techy, so that makes my arguments rather weak!
Joss
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